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Post by slendermaschine on Jan 20, 2014 13:00:58 GMT -5
*Agree to disagree on art + respect salute* Beauty of art, that ha ha. But I do agree on WWHD,in spite of not having a WiiU*. Childish was perhaps not the right word regarding Skyward sword's art and frankly I've been up for a bit too long and my mind's a little scattered English-wise... taken me bloody 15 minutes to remember the word "oxymoron" after stumbling upon a literal one that I think shocked my mind's dictionary. And that isn't me bluffing; I literally saw something that said "Meatless pepperoni" and my mind fried like it was being served up at Hannibal's Chicken and Waffle Hut trying think of that one word alone. I suppose my main point was more of an evolutionary one; I'd have personally rather seen loZ adhere to the art direction - in book specifically - of OoT and MM because frankly it stands out to me far more amongst the rest of Nintendo's library. They simply lack enough diversity for my own tastes and I suppose that's where, again, some will agree and some won't. To me, SS just looks hideous across the board but that I attribute to not being a fan of animation. If you like animation, even an inkling, then I'd bet SS has a much more approachable style whereas I find that realistic presentation impacts me better. Y'know, maybe Nintendo's original thinking with the Wii naming was that kids on the playground would one up/burn one another: "I don't have a wii..." -->
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Post by George Knight on Jan 20, 2014 13:14:59 GMT -5
I think you're missing the point. One of the brilliant things about Zelda's art direction is that it doesn't adhere to one specific style, and it is very important to the series on a thematic level.
It's one of the most diverse looking franchises in gaming history for a reason. It's a classic formula and a classic tale, and there are are many ways for it be interpreted and retold. Most Zelda games are essentially the same tale, with the details drastically altered. The games tell the story of the legend of Zelda, and each game is a variation on that legend. (I don't buy into any of that planned timeline bullshit they put out last year.) It's their way of both keeping the story fresh, while at the same time symbolically showing that legends change and evolve as they continue to be shared. A story told by one generation will drastically change as it's passed down to the next. It doesn't make sense for the style stick to one style, because much like stories it transforms into something completely new with each retelling.
The story told by the people in Ocarina of Time is the same as the story told in any other Zelda game, but not the people telling it. The story of Link saving the Princess changes along with kingdom of Hyrule and it's people, evolving into something that applies to the people of that time.
The look constantly changing from game to game (legend to legend), excluding direct sequels, is literally a stroke a genius.
It's one of the series strongest underlying themes, and why the whole REHASH REHASH REHASH attitude always seems a bit redundant to me.
That being said, if they had simply stuck to one art style and all post OoT games were all the same thing but with a new gimmick then entire concept would be have lost. The criticism about them making the same game over and over would then become totally viable, and this is the main reason why Hyrule Historia and the official timeline bug me so much. It's pure pandering, and did nothing but hurt the franchise as a whole. It's one thing to put in little clues and easter eggs for your fans who love to speculate about that kind of thing, but it's another thing to make their fan theory into an official canon.
EDIT: This is while many Zelda fans, me excluded, dislike Twilight Princess. It tries to emulate Ocarina of Time too closely both in art direction and themes, and came off as a blatant rehash as a result.
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Post by slendermaschine on Jan 20, 2014 14:01:05 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm not a big enough zelda fan so you're the default expert on these matters and again, it's just my preference and taste. The only disagreement I have is that it is not a literal stroke of genius, or else Link's art style might look more like this: Looks like someone said "meatless pepperoni" to Link, too, I'm afraid. Moving on from that, I just re-discovered and re-invented a classic game - not of the video game variety, but it's worth mentioning: Everyone remembers popping Bubble wrap, right? Well it's actually more fun with a knife! Yes, it does sound crazy, but it really is a superior way to do it; More of a Ron Swanson approach to the matter. *Edit* Also, I should mention that I only discovered this because I want to work out but I'm too sore from already working out, hence stabby-pop was invented.
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Post by George Knight on Jan 20, 2014 14:30:38 GMT -5
On a slightly related note: This guy pretty much sums up all of the issues I have with Zelda from a gameplay perspective in a nutshell, if anyone is interested. Nintendo need only address like... Half of these issues to get the ball rolling on a good Zelda game again.
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Post by slendermaschine on Jan 20, 2014 17:59:56 GMT -5
On a slightly related note: This guy pretty much sums up all of the issues I have with Zelda from a gameplay perspective in a nutshell, if anyone is interested. Nintendo need only address like... Half of these issues to get the ball rolling on a good Zelda game again. Completely agree on the need to swing this around in the overworld. His point regarding the sword and not finding it in the original NES game makes me think to how I felt first playing Morrowind: You really had to watch yourself every step of the way and not dare to venture into something out of your league. I'd love it if they offered a level of freedom in the overworld that really emphasized the idea of risk-award. I think that if they improved even more upon the importance of unique treasures, items, add-ons, and most of all, currency and then spread that throughout a very treacherous overworld it would be an amazing experience. For example, even something as simple as expanding upon the idea of Lon Lon Milk by having, say, a dairy farm in one locale but maybe a Goron trader who sells a special type of Meat Jerky or a Dodongo hide to cover your shield to resist fire that you would have to replace over time with either purchases or discovery. And his TP critiques about the sodding tutorial segments kills me to the point that I just can't play it to finish. Also, I think the old Loading Bar Skwyward Sword let's play sums up his idea that gameplay > story when it comes to Nintendo because dear god was that hard to bear ha ha! It made a great video, though ha ha! Splendid video choice and I think that acts as a nice bridge on our statements because I agree with about all that I'd say - I probably have been wording things a bit off because of the aforementioned going nuts with energy/workout drain paradox ha ha! Plus I'll admit that in the past, maybe 5 years or so my gaming in general dropped to next to nothing because my interest waned during some cancer treatment/recovery, but now I've retaken an interest so my memory's a bit fuzzy on some things or I'm out of practice heh heh. I also think he pointed out my issue with Skyward Sword's art because I do like some of TP's (as in, everything but the shadow world) and WW felt right to me for what it was going for like he said in the video as a point towards art. I also think my own preference to OoT and MM was really struck when he brought up approachability because I liked those two for how they kept a terrific balance that didn't beat you over the head with help too often and actually left enough mystery/discovery to certain aspects (but like he stated, not enough - especially the overworld). Again, just preferences so no point treading water and instead I salute you, your opinions, and overall that was a great video to share, so thank you.
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Post by PoopaPapaPalpatine on Jan 20, 2014 19:27:59 GMT -5
I know, and the shame is that Nintendo seems stuck on this almost childish aesthetic that rings so... flat. No pun intended either, because I just wanted to slap my forehead remembering "oh yeah! Nintendo thinks remaking the NES is original!" One of my infamous monsters posts incoming. You've been warned:As After Spill's resident Zelda fanboy, I disagree entirely. Especially about the about the art direction of Skyward Sword. (Which was a flawed game's best feature) Stylized =/= Childish I don't want Zelda to be a serious and dark epic fantasy story. I don't want it to focus on telling a deep or thought provoking story (Though this can be can be an optional secondary focus), or be extra difficult for the sake of being extra difficult. There are more than enough games like that on the market these days. If I wanted that, I'd play Dark Souls or Skyrim. Similarly, I don't want Zelda to have gritty and realistic artstyle. It doesn't really fit the series as a whole. Zelda should be what it has ALWAYS been (MM excluded): A fun fantasy adventure game... ... People should stop trying to make everything into something serious and epic, as not everything needs to be. Sometimes I just want to have fun... I think you're missing the point. One of the brilliant things about Zelda's art direction is that it doesn't adhere to one specific style, and it is very important to the series on a thematic level. It's one of the most diverse looking franchises in gaming history for a reason. It's a classic formula and a classic tale, and there are are many ways for it be interpreted and retold. Most Zelda games are essentially the same tale, with the details drastically altered. The games tell the story of the legend of Zelda, and each game is a variation on that legend. (I don't buy into any of that planned timeline bullshit they put out last year.) It's their way of both keeping the story fresh, while at the same time symbolically showing that legends change and evolve as they continue to be shared. A story told by one generation will drastically change as it's passed down to the next. It doesn't make sense for the style stick to one style, because much like stories it transforms into something completely new with each retelling. The story told by the people in Ocarina of Time is the same as the story told in any other Zelda game, but not the people telling it. The story of Link saving the Princess changes along with kingdom of Hyrule and it's people, evolving into something that applies to the people of that time. The look constantly changing from game to game (legend to legend), excluding direct sequels, is literally a stroke a genius. It's one of the series strongest underlying themes, and why the whole REHASH REHASH REHASH attitude always seems a bit redundant to me... I love you so much right now, George. Those are my sentiments exactly.
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Post by slendermaschine on Jan 22, 2014 2:00:43 GMT -5
On the topic of revisiting - I keep debating between these three Skyrim Standing Stone mods and I really want to use them with Classic Classes and Birthsigns: Better Standing Stones - Definitely lore-friendly and well-done... mostly. Some of the doomstones just seem like such a waste and even with the additional birthsigns from Classic Classes (3rd Era, not the standing stone option) Project Skyrim - Seems more like the originals but tweaked. I especially think this would go well with Classic Classes 3rd Era birthsigns option Signs and Guardians - Probably the most interesting because you pick one of the three guardians to keep permanently (Mage, Thief, or Warrior) and can then only select from the 3 "charges," or other standing stones to switch in and out like Oblivion. The Serpent gains skills -25% but can apparently pick and get a random charge and swap guardians once or something along the lines of that. I initially leaned towards Better, but the latter two are growing on me, especially with CC&B + 3rd era birthsigns. Frankly I don't get the mistreatment some signs/stones have gotten between Bethesda and even modders. Especially in Better is the Ritual left a fool's choice for a mod, especially - if you're running anything else that ups the difficulty that version has 50% weakness to magic AND damage. The hell? Of the 3, at least Project Skyrim only does -50 health for that stone BUT gives a boost in conjuration. It's hard to imagine a once-per-day spell that can justify any passive debuffs, again emphasizing that if you have mods that can up the difficulty or number of foes you'd be boned. And S&G at least only gives powers but doesn't try to bend you over with some absurd weakness. S&G's Serpent mechanic is also at least a very interesting addition that I'd say is more "lore friendly" than Better's because it fits the nature of a serpent floating about in the sky. I bring this up because, like the Ritual, the Serpent has always been one of those signs that have gotten no respect at all. Really the more I think about it I'm ruling out Better more and more because for the few neat ideas there's too much waste that honestly RELIES on Classic Character and Birthsigns if you were to pair the two because Project Skyrim offers so many more buffs that are relatively simple on their own so they could mesh well with CC&B and stick closer to the original game anyway to allow you to make a far more uniquely built character who performs better in a role playing sense because from personal experience those greater powers that are only once a day never felt like they defined anything interesting about my characters or even impacted gameplay enough to justify going back to them. Signs and Guardians, while a bit more guilty on that latter point as far as powers go, at least has a unique angle where you would still have all the positives from the focus in magicka if you chose the mage, the mage's bonuses, and some unique powers from the Ritual if you chose. Together that's a fair compromise rather than strictly getting some power that honestly relies too much on situations being aligned just right (and they won't 9/10 of the time) while the lucky bastard with the Steed sprints circles around that silly ritual all day and night. This has to be one seemingly minor but overall very important role-playing and just overall balance concern I hope Bethesda fixes for TESVI. It's still part of your character and should come into play more often than a piss break, at least. As a side note, from what I've seen since Morrowind, I really hope that the next single player (a.k.a. TRUE Elder Scrolls game) isn't in Elswyre (?!?) looking at its mod alone, too much desert, or Blackmarsh. Swamps in general are very hard to do and Morrowind is a spectacle for pulling it off so well (as was Shivering Isles when you think about the marshier regions), but it also had (1) a very unique swamp that was almost alien compared to the boring as hell regions in Oblivion that were typical fantasy and nothing more and (2) extremely varied atmosphere across the region, in spite of size! There wasn't just swampland, but mountains, volcanic regions, valleys, grassy plains, islands... and that's not even bringing up Solsteim or the unique underbelly introduced in Tribunal's captial city locale. Point is, they have to practice like mad if they plan on making those regions a focus. *Last but not least: Skyrim's apparently coming to the Xbone and PSThreeForOne! So good news: Another reminder that they should have bought a better PC. This recent next-gen launch window still has me feel like the Wii-U is still the strongest if so much can already be gotten on either the PC or what should be more offensive, last gen consoles ha ha!
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Post by Spraynard Kruger on Mar 23, 2014 2:37:52 GMT -5
i've sunk a frankly embarrassing amount of time into fallout: new vegas. its just one of the best designed settings ive encountered in the modern gaming scene, and the first rpg ive played in ages i feel comfortable calling an rpg.
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Post by minasa on Mar 24, 2014 20:48:54 GMT -5
In that summer, I did nothing!
Adding to that; it also had the best licensed racing soundtrack.
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tonio31
Junior Spillio
Mangy Black Sheep
Posts: 96
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Post by tonio31 on Mar 26, 2014 1:41:08 GMT -5
In that summer, I did nothing!
Adding to that; it also had the best licensed racing soundtrack. Makes me wonder what the game would have been like if Acclaim didn't go bankrupt.
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Post by el woospo on Mar 28, 2014 8:00:48 GMT -5
Nothin much I can add about Zelda thats not been said, personally all I want to change in the next Zelda is the overworld and the enemies in it. I want nintendo to rip off Shadow of the Collosus, have fuckin HUGE wandering bosses that need taken down to reach the dungeons. Alo generally more enemies that are worth killing and fun to kill rather than you just end up running or galloping past them.
As for Burnout 3, that along with Half Life 2 was the only games I rented regularly when at blockbuster abusing my weekly free rentals, crazy amounts of fun was had with it.
The main game(s) that spring to mind for longevity are Advanced Wars, been playing them for years and never tire.
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